Comrade Olusoji Oluwole is the President of
Association of Senior Staff of Banks, Insurance and Financial Institutions (ASSBIFI). In this interview with DUPE OLAOYE OSINKOLU, he speaks on the crisis associated with the Naira swap policy, cashless system, the role of Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), the allegation by Governor Nasir El-Rufai of Kaduna State and what banks are doing to douse the tension in the financial sector.
Excerpt:
FREEDOMONLINE:
Mr President, ASSBIFI, the country is agog with alleged unprofessional conducts of bank workers, especially the senior staff who are mainly your members, concerning alleged hoarding of new Naira notes and the resultant suffering of bank customers. Can you tell us what is really going on?
ANSWER:
The redesigned had occurred, the notices had been given. When that notice was given in December, we actually warned that there could be crisis due to shortage of the Naira and pressure on electronic banking generally because the infrastructure may not be sufficient to accommodate the rise in electronic transactions. This was December.
Before the last one week, CBN went on the offensive against banks, saying the banks were refusing to collect the new Naira, which was ridiculous.
In the last one week, they came out claiming that banks were hoarding the money or trading with the money. The question that has been on the lips of everybody including the House of Reps was for CBN to declare how much exactly was printed and how much has been distributed. We asked the same question too. That CBN should tell us how much was printed and how much they’ve given each bank to distribute to customers. Because as we all know, it cuts from N1000 to N200 notes. CBN was unable to give that information. The Deputy Governor was invited to the House of Representatives, they asked her the same questions, she said she was not aware of how much was printed.
The next thing CBN did was to say they were sending out task forces to monitor what was going on…and in about five or six isolated cases, came out with videos and pictures that those banks were hoarding money and unfortunately, national TV, particularly NTA, picked those stories without even asking the people who were there any question, because you cannot shave a man’s head in his absence. If you come up with an accusation, the people you’re accusing should also be given a right to speak.
And so we took it upon ourselves to also see exactly what was happening. And we were shocked when we heard the value of what CBN was pushing out to them. I’ll give you an example. CBN, for instance, gave one bank N67m for the whole of Lagos. N67m for the whole of Lagos for that bank would have translated to roughly about N3m or N4m per bank. One single ATM would accommodate N8m, and you’re giving an entire branch N4m, branches have a minimum of two ATMs and you expect it to circulate.
Of course the public were gullible enough to accept what the CBN was saying. The unfortunate incident that happened on Friday was in Ibadan when they went attacking banks, destroying properties, destroying ATMs, and I think one or two people got shot in the process. I did a little bit of maths over the weekend, just to support our own claim and to debunk what CBN is saying, because I said, okay, let’s even assume the banks they went to were really hoarding, do a total value of the funds that were found in their possession and let us look at what the need is, today. Today, Nigeria has 180 million people. Assuming just 10 percent of the total population of Nigeria wants to draw the maximum N20000 that the CBN has instructed to pay, that’s about N360 billion. And the report we are having, unverified, is that what CBN has printed is less than N500 billion, and CBN is still sending out money. So, if you’ve printed N500 billion and you’re still sending out money, how much is actually in circulation against what is actually required today? For me, I think they (CBN) have not been fair to the banks. What I expect is that if this policy has run into a challenge, everybody should be able to come together to look at the best way to provide succour to people to provide the kind of solution needed at this time.
Not for us to be pointing fingers. I wouldn’t like to point fingers at the CBN, neither will I want to point fingers at any organisation.
FREEDOMONLINE:
The videos, pictures and short interchange between the CBN and caught banks’ staff are already in circulation, are you saying the videos were doctored? There was a particular video of the Sterling Bank in Ado Ekiti, where N6m disbursed to the bank was not loaded in the ATM for about two weeks…are you aware of this?
ANSWER:
I actually investigated the Sterling one. A statement has been made by that bank already. CBN did not mention that the N6m was in N200 notes. That video that came out yesterday (Sunday) was taken in January as at the time they received that money alongside other funds. There is record to show that Ado Ekiti has paid out, roughly up to N200 million since inception. We all know, up till when this redesign happened, when you go to an ATM, what you get is N1000 and N500. Now, N200 notes were sent at a time when you couldn’t pay across the counter. So they loaded what they had. Every bank has to go round the country, reconfiguring ATMs…
So, it took two weeks for them to get to Ado Ekiti when they were going round…it is not impossible but the fact is that when that kind of report is going out, it is fair to give a clear information because the impression that was given from that video was that, that branch was refusing to pay. There is another one that I saw, I’ve not been able to verify too…that they said they held on to hundreds of millions if Naira…
FREEDOMONLINE: Was it the Osogbo Bank?
ANSWER: The moment I saw that video, I knew it was not in Lagos. I’ll tell you why I know it’s not in Lagos. I have had the privilege of working in PH. The branch that I was in, was the hub. The hub supplies all the branches within that state and neighbouring states where CBN is not present to provide cash. So, using my PH experience as an example, I supplied the whole of PH, I supplied Bayelsa state and I supplied Abia State. If CBN walked into my vault today, and found N300 million there, and I had probably loaded only N20m or N10m, it is probably because I have prepared cash that I am going to send to other locations as well. So, those are the questions to be asked, that why have you kept it there? Give them that opportunity to be able to say it themselves. Mind you, like in the statement I made, we cannot deny the possibility that you would find a few situations where somebody has actually done that, but these are individual cases…but for the people who are going around and people who are taking videos, to now come and take such situations and generalize it is not fair. When you look at such situations and messages flying around led to the vandalisation of ATMs in Ibadan. In Ibadan, Wema Bank, for instance has three ATMs destroyed. What does that tell us? In destroying ATMs, you have reduced the chances of even getting cash. They attacked five banks, if those five banks have to be shut down because of the damage to their properties, you have reduced the number of banks that you can get cash from. When you look at that kind of situations, not to talk about the dangers to the lives and properties of people. From all the videos I have seen, I have seen about five or six videos, nobody is showing the videos of the locations that were actually paying cash. I went to Abuja last week. I drove around between 9pm and 10 pm, ATMs were still paying cash. Some banks even made provisions for chairs and canopies and security to enable people be comfortable where they were drawing cash. A bank in Lagos took it upon themselves to provide water to the people who were queuing to collect cash. Since this thing started, staff of banks have had to be going to work everyday. For ATMs to be dispensing cash at 10 pm, it means somebody was there at night to be able to load. What does it take to withdraw the entire cash in an ATM? It means somebody is inside the bank or have to leave their houses early in the morning to ensure availability of cash.
FREEDOMONLINE:
People also complained that the banks treated customers well in the Northern States but treated people unfairly in the South, what’s your take on this?
ANSWER:
Going round Lagos, I saw people queuing. I was in Ijebu Ode, I saw people queuing, I went to my own bank today to transact other businesses, I found the queue that was there…and how they were trying to deal with the situation to ensure that everybody got cash. A lot of banks are coming up with all sorts of measures to ensure that the money gets round to everybody. Some of those mentioned, I find very ridiculous. Bottomline of which is that they want to ensure nobody goes away empty-handed. But like I said, the question I will continue to ask, and nobody has been able to answer, is: how much was printed? If they had withdrawn N3 trillion from the economy, and you’re printing less than N500 billion, how does it work?
Again, I will tell you another thing that is happening. We are also creating problems for ourselves, I am talking about the consumers. On Saturday, we went out to buy fuel, we queued, we got in. An entire filling station told us there was no POS. So they insisted on collecting cash. I heard that report that was the latest that the filling station attendants were doing, that they were insisting on cash, and selling the cash. When you look at the volume of fuel that is being sold and all the cash that is being collected in the course of these dispensations, it puts pressure… you are forced to part with the little cash that you have. All those pressure areas are areas that people going around should visit. Tell them to put on their POS. ..some, yes, because of pressure on infrastructure, may be failing, but I don’t expect 100 per cent failure across board. We need to look at the POS operators too who are charging upward 20 per cent for people to be able to withdraw, nobody is talking about that one.
FREEDOMONLINE:
But they claim to be buying the cash from banks and they need to make their own profits on the investments…
ANSWER:
That is what they would say. Is there anything to prove it? How many of those ones have been arrested to point out the people who sold the money to them? We go round event centres. Sometimes last year, an event centre was shut down because they were distributing fuel. How many event centres have been shut down for their patrons violating the CBN Act that criminalizes spraying of money at parties? None has been done. We need to get to the roots of this problem, and the only way of getting to the root is by getting the sourcing and the locations where these things are happening. If we cannot trace the problem to the source, we shouldn’t just be making blanket accusations.
FREEDOMONLINE
What have you done towards discouraging your members, the bank workers who may be treading the path of dishonour by engaging in some of the vices being circulated via videos – hoarding of new Naira notes and selling?
ANSWER:
I sent out two messages to my members. The first is what you mentioned. The second is that they should also be security conscious, because I was worried about their own safety too. I had to tell them that, whenever you are going out, make sure you don’t have anything that identifies you as a bank worker in public. That was done on Friday when we heard about the Ibadan incidents.
And even before then, we have actually noted the security when a coalition of some civil society organizations came out to protest and printed on banners that bankers were saboteurs. I was a bit taken aback that people who are learned could do that.
FREEDOMONLINE:
What did you expect when people were going stark naked in the banking halls because of the hardship they were experiencing because they couldn’t get cash to take care of themselves and families? Emotions would definitely run riot, do you also think about that?
ANSWER:
The reality is that all the people being arrested, they should collate all the money they claimed the banks sold to them. Let us see how it will solve the problem.
Which responsible bank will say they are doing sharp practices on the Naira at the risk of their facilities, how much do they want to make that will make positive impact on the lives and properties that they have there? When we look at it realistically, saying that the banks are to blame is a very difficult thing. I have been fortunate that everywhere I have been going to, I have been fortunate to transact mostly electronically. People were making fun of me when I said since this thing started, I have only been able to get money twice, the first time N10000, the second time N20000. So, I am respecting myself, I know where to go and where not to…and I am working in a bank.
FREEDOMONLINE:
Governor El-Rufai of Kaduna State recently alleged that a Governor got N500m new Naira notes. Are bank workers not complicit in this revelation? Who gets the blame for this when the masses are suffering because individuals find it too difficult to withdraw just N10000 for feeding?
ANSWER:
He should name names. For something I have not verified, I find it difficult to comment on. Personally for me, at the stage that we are right now, it is time we start naming names. Don’t tell me a bank, tell us the bank, and the bank should tell us where it got the money from.
FREEDOMONLINE: …And the Governor…?
ANSWER:
Yes, and the Governor. They should tell us where it came from. There is probability that, yes, banks may make funds available to high net customers, but where such claims like the one made by Governor El-Rufai have come out, then they should tell us their names, because right now, the polity is heated up. There’s no fuel, there is no money. Sometimes when people get heated up and emotions start to rise, I do not blame them. I can only continue to appeal, like I did this morning that we need to remain calm, because going out and becoming violent is not going to change anything. It’s not going to make it any better, it’s just going to name it worse for everybody. At the end of the day, we are the ones who are going to suffer for it.
FREEDOMONLINE:
How do you see the Cashless policy?
ANSWER:
The policy is all tied to the efficiency of the infrastructure. Again, when we are talking of infrastructure, people are quick to point fingers at banks. But I try to educate them that the infrastructure of cashless is not only banks. It involves telecommunications companies, it includes power holding companies, it includes the switches themselves. So, there are various parties to a cashless economy. If I am transferring money from my account in my bank to your own account in your bank, my bank is involved, your bank is involved, if I am using Airtel, Airtel is involved, if your bank uses Glo, Glo is involved,…all the stakeholders are involved. It’s like this telephone call we are having right now, you’re in Canada, I am here in Nigeria, if this call drops now, without any of us cutting it, both of us cannot determine where the problem came from. It could come from your network, it could come from mine. In December, when I had the press conference here, one of the things I said was that, in coming out with that redesigning policy from CBN, what we would have been expected was that they would have called stakeholders together. We made a lot of emphasis on infrastructure, because I said, in the policy that was coming out, it was obvious that they were going to reduce the Naira in circulation, which was pushing people to cashless and it means that there will be an increase in the volume of transactions, which would put pressure on all the infrastructure, and that is exactly what is happening right now. Some may be lucky to complete their transactions, some may not be.
FREEDOMONLINE:
People are saying the Naira redesign and Cashless policy is politically motivated. Could this be true?
ANSWER:
Well, sadly it’s very easy to make that insinuation because of the timing. Maybe if this had happened six months ago, nobody would be saying that. Look at the time that the policy was put in place. It was put in place in December, to start in January. Number one, put in place in Yuletide season when people spend a lot of money. You now end it a few weeks to the general elections. Of course, people would make those insinuations. It is possible, it may not have been. But the timing can be seen as being faulty. For me, the biggest thing I felt I had a challenge with is the implementation, aside the timing itself. This is not the first time we are redesigning Naira but this is the first time we are having crisis.
FREEDOMONLINE:
Any message for bank customers?
ANSWER:
They should try as much as possible to be our own helper. If you’re a provider of service where you can accept fund transfer, go ahead, please go ahead and not insist on cash especially when you have been admitting it before. And for those who really need cash, they need to be patient and they should withdraw what they need, because what we also found was that people were doing panic withdrawal and stocking cash at home that they don’t really need. So, draw what you need and try as much as possible to use other modes of payments. I said it last week that if the banks could collaborate and give incentives for cashless payment, they should. And thankfully, today, I received mail from my bank that between now and the end of this exercise, all electronic transfers should be done free, that people should come into the bank and collect their debit cards free of charge. Those are the kind of things that would spur people to turn around and turn away from violence. Importantly for me is that they should be patient, we know they are agitated, but they should try as much as possible to move away from violence. And on the suppliers side of it which is the bank, I want to expect that the CBN will call in banks and all stakeholders to see how these things can be nipped in the bud, to ensure that this exercise doesn’t end up being a failure for us, because we want it to work.
